Interview - Frank Loaiza

Why is character important? How have character deficiencies hurt a local church? These are some questions I was pondering recently when I talked to Francisco Loaiza.

Francisco Loaiza has been a Member of the Technical Staff (Systems Administrator) at an Aerospace Company in Pasadena since 1991. He is married and has three children.

What is your connection to Mosaic church--what ministries where you involved in and how long?

I visited the Church on Brady when I was 16 years old, in 1986 through Holly Byrd, (now Holly Hair) and later became a member in 1987. I was a bible study leader and then became a Youth Worker , (1989), in the Youth Ministry and led weekly Bible studies. At MOSAIC, I was a leader in the college ministry. My wife and I decided to leave Mosaic in September 1998.

You have spoken admiringly of the old Church on Brady. Why do you have such strong affection for that church?


It was during my time at The Church on Brady that I really began to understand the scriptures and I was surrounded by people and leadership that really invested in my Christian walk. People like Holly Byrd, Eddie Marshall, Laszlo Veszpellar, Margaret Veszpellar, Dave Mushegan, Bruce Welch, Steve Walker, Clara Welch, Kristin Klindt, etc....These people helped me to understand the scriptures and to apply them to my life. This was a time in my life where I was new to the Lord, I was full of the joy of my newfound salvation. These youth leaders provided opportunities for me to serve others, (Vacation Bible School, and other service projects and mission trips).These were very formative years for me spiritually, and I have many fond memories and close friends that I still communicate with to this day from that time. It was at the Church on Brady where I met my wife to be and at the Church on Brady where we were wed.


Regarding the pastor of Mosaic, are there serious character issues with him? If so, can you provide and example or examples of those character deficiencies?


I think that the main thing I see/saw in Erwin R. McManus is deception. I think he uses deception in various ways to get things done. Here are a couple examples;In 1993 David Arcos invited me to a Bar-B-Que. He told me that Erwin might be at this barbecue, so I asked him where I can meet him. He then proceeded to tell me that he, (David Arcos), would pick me up. He picked me up and we ended up at Erwin's home in Alhambra, (at the time). That threw me for a loop since David had told me that Erwin might be there, and we were parked in front of his home! Before we entered the home for this barbecue, David told me not to bring up any theological questions with Erwin, that this was only to be a relaxed atmosphere "to get to know each other". I complied and we entered the home. Mark Kaprive and Erwin were inside, and nobody else. I thought it was kinda strange for a barbecue... This turned out to be a very exclusive barbecue, indeed... Erwin was fidgeting around with the the grill and I approached him and asked him if there was an issue between he and I... He responded with an adamant YES!. He proceeded to tell me that everytime I meet with him , or talk with him, that I always have a bible question or a deep theological discussion comes up. He just wants to get to know me for who I am and not be confronted with Theological discussions. He also told me that the elders at Brady have already "tested" him on what he believes and that he doesn't need me to check on him as well. I was taken aback. Wow, I thought, this guy is really upset about this. Needless to say, this BarBQue turned out to be a set-up confrontation. Mark Kaprive and Erwin basically spent the rest of the time speaking about Predestination and Erwin began to take apart RC Sproul's belief's on election and being born again. I felt that I was tricked into something..... Example 2:In 1994 Catherine and I were engaged to be married and we wanted to have a bilingual wedding. We wanted to have Bro. Tom Wolf and Erwin do the wedding. We envisioned Bro. Tom doing the English part of the ceremony and Erwin doing translating it to spanish. We approached Bro. Tom and he agreed to do it and we approached Erwin and he said that he doesn't speak good enough Spanish.I asked Erwin that since he was a pastor at a Spanish speaking congregation in the past, (Dallas, TX), that I think he would do well. He said that he cannot speak Spanish well enough. I was confused as to why he didn't want to do it. Several months later,(AUgust 1994), Catherine and I attended a wedding at Brady that Erwin led, and he executed the ceremony in English and was translating the ceremony in Spanish "on the fly". His Spanish was actually pretty good. I could not understand why he didn't want to do my wedding in Spanish. Once again I felt that I was deceived by Erwin....


Did you ever approach leadership with any of your concerns?


Not about these concerns in particular, but I approached the elders about the fact that I felt that Erwin's sermons didn't make sense to me.I also felt that there was not enough discipleship at Mosaic, there was a great emphasis put on evangelism, but not enough discipleship of the evangelized. I have been told that Erwin has quoted me as saying that I said, "Mosaic is too evangelistic" This is simply not true, I never said this. I said that we had an unbalanced emphasis on evangelism and not enough emphasis on discipleship.


Have there been any attempts from Mosaic leadership recently to contact you? If so, did that go well?


No, I have contacted MOSAIC leadership myself and Eric Bryant has written me back several times, but I have yet to hear from Erwin, but I know he is very busy with Speaking engagements around the country.


You have expressed some of your opinions on a website and blog critical of Mosaic. There are those who say that this is an unbiblical way of expressing concerns. Why shouldn't those who have concerns simply approach the leader they had a problem with and then come to some sort of resolution behind closed doors?


Because it is very difficult to meet with Erwin. I think that he hides behind his staff.


Wouldn't this be the best choice given the possibility many unbelievers and new believers have read the blogs and formed an unsavory opinion of the Christian church?


Yes, I agree. In Proverbs 22:1 we read; "A good name is to be more desired than great wealth,Favor is better than silver and gold. "I am so amazed that Erwin has not done anything to restore his good name.